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Discussion Starter #1
Working on a 2002 Honda Rancher TRX 450.
Am new to the site :happyand have a repair shop and need help. Customer brought machine to me with front cover taken off by another shop and was told that timing chain was broke. Looked at all components and saw nothing broke-loose maybe but not broke! Removed the valve cover and all pushrods, rocker arms, and valves moving freely. Put all components back on the front of motor, adjust valves, and try to start. Compression coming back out of carb with gas. Remove the head and appears intake valve is not seating. Remove the valve and replace b/c it is dished out, exhaust valve looks good. Mic the cylinder and it is worn out as well. Get cylinder honed .025 oversize and install new piston and rings. Put all back together and try to start again. :rant Acts like the timing is off as it will try to start but sounds like very retarted timeing like sprocket jumped a gear. Has anyone ever heard of this? Any info would be appreciated! Can not see any timing marks on the crank b/c of the clutch pack is in the way. Sorry to be long winded but wanted to give the whole story.
 

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You need a service manual so you can see if the mechanical timing is out of wack. Im sure someone will chime in soon who is willing to share.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah that would be a huge help! Can't remember now if I saw timing marks on the cam gear or not, but that has to be some way to line it up. Am going to remove the front cover in the morning and look again.
 

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Take out the timing hole plug and line up the "T" mark on the flywheel with the notch in the side of the hole. That will put your piston on TDC. The timing plug hole is located on the right side of the engine, near the pull rope. It will be about the size of a quarter and I think it takes a 6mm allen wrench or allen socket to remove it.

For the cam, make sure the lobes on the cam are facing down and make sure the punch mark on the cam gear is lined up with the index mark on the crankcase. The index mark on the crankcase is right above the cam gear.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you

Thanks for the information and the welcome!
Is it normal for one to get out of time like this? How can it? Does this mean that the guides or tensioner is not working correctly? What is the adjuster for on the front of the motor that says increase or decrease? Have to do with governor or what?
 

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Welcome to the forum. Are you working on a 350 Rancher or 450 Foreman? If it's the 450 the cam chain adjuster could be bad (fully retracted) and that will let it jump time.

The adjuster on the front crankcase cover is for the clutch adjustment.



If it's a 450.

 

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Discussion Starter #10
Still working on it!

Am working on 2002 Honda TRX450FE
Took the front cover off this morning and removed the timing plug and put engine at TDC(T lined up in sight window). Looked at cam alignment and timing mark on block is at 12 and cam gear is at 10-so definitely out of time. Now, the chain is loose and the tensioner is not resting on the chain guide-don't now if this is right or wrong. Is there anything esle that I need to know about removing that balancer or whatever is on the front of the crankshaft? Or do I not need to remove it?
Thanks again-you guys are awesome at this!:happy
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Also noticed I can push up on the tensioner with my finger, so I guess it is not bottomed out. Is there supposed to be a spring between tensioner and guide? All was taken apart when I got machine at my shop. A picture of this would really help.
 

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All you need is a small flat screwdriver for the tensioner. Remove the center screw and turn it until the tension is released and give it just a touch more and it will stay. Once everything is together just loosen it a little and the spring will take over in the tensioner and put it where it needs to be.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Tensioner

Is the tensioner(lifter one) supposed to be resting on the chain guard tensioner? Mine is at least an inch away and the chain is just flopping up and down. Is it possible the wrong chain has been put on there? Or is the chain guard tensioner defective? Just want an idea before I take the cam gear and everything else off.:angry:
 

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Any way you can post a pic. I could tell you many things just from a look.
 

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I sounded like you said the timing mark on the cam gear, when lined up with the timing mark under the clutch cover resulted in the the timing mark on the cam being in the 10 o-clock position. So you will have to take the cam gear off anyway.

I just replaced my cam chain and tensioner on Tuesday on my 1999 Foreman 450ES so it is still fresh in my mind. After installing the new Cam Chain and Tensioner there was no slack in my chain.

Maybe your cam chain tensioner lifter is bad or not adjusted properly, if that is even possible? I think it either works or it dosen't.

All's I know is that after lining up all 3 timing marks and re-assembling the topend, I hit the starter button and the thing immediatly came to life.

Other thoughts, I could see the timing mark (T) on the flywheel, but did not see any punch marks on the crankcase to line it up with. I gave it my best guess based on the stroke of the piston, then aligned the marks on the cam, cam gear and inner front clutch housing. I may have got lucky that I was not 180 degrees off.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I will try to post a pic tomorrow. Yes when I put the crank on TDC with the T lined up in the window. The cam is at 10 instead of 12 where it should be. As far as the lifter tensioner goes how far should it stick out? Customer said they started it up and took off and it just died and would not restart. I have timed a lot of V8 engines and built them on stands, but this thing is a pain in my a__.
Thanks for the help
 

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It sounds as if something was not reassembled correctly. Ain't no telling what could have gone wrong when they started it.

I am an old honda guy from back in the 80's & 90's. I used to consider myself a pretty good tech back in those days, but these newer Honda 4 wheelers have me second guessing myself...

Get a picture posted for "InTooDeep to look at, he seems to know his stuff.
 

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The adjuster looks to be bad, most likely the spring inside it broke so it's not putting tension on the guide. They are not all that uncommon to go bad on these machines. You can try turning the internal screw with a small flat screw driver to make sure it's not just locked into place.
 
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