[stang67]

First of all, let me introduce myself. I have been lurking and reading for some time, but this is my first post. Also let me apologize for this first post being such a downer -- I wish it wasn't that way, believe me.

I bought the bike in Corinth, MS in Aug.-- planning to use it for hunting. First week of Dec, it had right at 7hrs and 30miles -- not so much as a speck of mud on the machine. It makes a clanking noise and seizes -- took to dealer same day. Diagnosed within a week as an "exploded" oil pump, and the engine was run for an unknown amount of time without bein supplied with oil. The servicing dealer is not in Starkville, MS, and other than being slow and a bit backed up have been very nice and up front with me the whole way thru. All internals of the engine will be replaced, and we are currently waiting on one gasket set b4 the rebuild is complete.

Worried that I have simply purchase a problem-proned lemon, I have had numerous people telling me to b*** and moan for a new bike. I can't make myself be the ahole needed to bring about such a decision.

However, due to the inconvenience brought about by such a severe problem this early in the atv's life, I would be lying if I said that I don't think Honda owes me something. Thus, I called them last week with a request that they help/reimburse me for a purchased ext. warranty. After all, I have not even been able to ride it to check out if some other problems might pop up. Because of THEIR problem, how can I assess whether or not I have indeed bought a lemon, b4 the 6mo. warranty is up. Not having the bike during hunting season robbed me of a ton of seat time.

The Honda people were to call me within 2 business days with a response to my polite request. As arrogantly as he could, the Honda rep denied my request after I CALLED HIM on the 3rd day. Although, he purportedly gave it consideration with upper management, he alluded that it was an absurd request and they simply have "no way of doing such a thing." If it was so absurd, why deliberate at all? So now, I am fulfilling my promise in spreading my story to everyone who will listen.

Has anyone heard of a mechanical problem like this? Can anyone offer me any advice? Again sorry, to have to post something like this. I am NOT a Honda basher as I was very loyal to the brand prior to this. I have a thread at the HL message board that I started with the onset of the problem, and will be updating it soon with this news. Thanks ahead of time, and sorry for the length.

 

[deadmullet]

sorry about your luck I have never heard of a oil pump explode on a atv before. on a outboard boat motor i have, but not an atv, sorry

i would like to commend you on your writing skills though

good luck, let us know how it turns out

 

[eurobro]

Ouch! If there wasn't such a thing as bad luck some people wouldnt have anything at all. Sorry to hear about your mishap. Seems you handled it like you should of. It sucks that you only had such a short amount of seat time on the bike and now you have to wait for the rebuild. About the rebuild it "should" be like a new bike (considering it IS new) and thats the only thing that went wrong with it.

I have heard numerous times about "stealerships" giving loaner bikes when a bike was bought for hunting or agricultural use. I would ask about that if I were you.

 

[Honda Mechanic]

The oil pump couldn't explode.. I don't know what model you have but some are chain driven some have a shaft that drives it .. Yours must have either seized or stopped turning which starved the engine of oil ..

I would find out who your Honda service rep. is for your area and phone him & tell him your story ..

 

[stang67]

QUOTE ("Honda Mechanic":3fm54oep)

The oil pump couldn't explode.. I don't know what model you have but some are chain driven some have a shaft that drives it .. Yours must have either seized or stopped turning which starved the engine of oil ..

I would find out who your Honda service rep. is for your area and phone him & tell him your story ..

Explode may be a sensationalized description. It was in a few pieces when the motor was taken down, however. I don't know much about the workings of an oil pump, but the tech I spoke with mentioned that a dirty install could have caused it??? The service dept has been updating Honda and the district rep every step of the way. Due to the apparent rarity of such an instance, they are supposedly very interested in it. This is one reason why I expected more sympathy from them when asking for help on the ext. warranty. Go figure.

Thank you all for your input and support.

 

[Honda Mechanic]

I would talk to the Honda rep myself if it was my bike ..

We get a few odd breakdowns a year at our shop .. The last 1 was a Rubicon CTE the rear axle tube broke beside the shock ,bent rim,bent axle,broke both foot & park cables .. And because the owner didn't want to leave it in the woods over night (and risk having it stolen) he drove it out to his truck..This several KM drive bent the frame ..Honda was paying for everything and owner said he didn't want that bike back ..Honda Canada gave him a new bike ..

As far as your oil pump goes .. The only thing that would seize an oil pump is filings which is probably what your mechanic meant by (dirty install) ..And if there's filings in your engine it will require both oil coolers and every bearing replaced as well as the gears & main/counter shafts removed ,cleaned and checked with a micrometer ..

I've had several TRX500FE/FM engines out and tore down for new crankshafts (engines in for the clutch recall with loose centrifugal clutches require new crankshafts) ..I did a crank job in a TRX500 last week and today I have another 1 on the bench waiting for a crank .. Tomorrow I will take some pictures of the oil pump before I assemble the engine ..

Getting all the filings out of some of these engine parts is no little job ..You can let your varasol parts cleaner run all day thru the inlet hose, thru the oil cooler and out the outlet hose and at the end of the day tip up the oil cooler and you can still see sparkles in the pan from the filings ..

If your area Honda Service Rep wants you to buy another Honda product he'll make you happy .. I know the rep we deal with would ..

 

[honda_can-am_tech]

I have a question. An atv has a lot of electrical and moving mechanical parts. Lets say one of those parts breaks or fails. It happens, not to every machine but it happens. Heres my question. If something does break, whether its something very rare (like an exploding oil pump) or something that Honda has seen before (oil seal leaking), why should a customer think they deserve a new machine or free extended warranty? Last time I checked, warranty covers these kind of problems at no cost to the customer. Thats what warranty is for. So why do some people think they deserve better treatment than others. Don't get me wrong, I can understand the fustration of your machine breaking down, especially with not many miles/hours on it, but thats why manufactures have warranties, to make the repair free of charge to the customer for a period of time. Imagine what would happen if a manufacture gave a new machine to everyone who had something break while under warranty. If you keep having problems w/ your machine, then I can see the reasoning behind asking for something from Honda. But for one break down, no matter how much damage your engine suffered, be happy your not two years out of warranty and paying the bill out of your own pocket.

 

[rickytz7111]

Not to sound bad or anything honda_brp_tech but put your self in his shoes. He feels that he bought a lemon and I know that I would be worried about it breaking down again. Or worried if the shop fixes it right. I love Hondas don't get me wrong but every once in a whle a bad one is made. So just my opinion they should give him some piece of mind with extra warranty coverage or a new quad.

 

[Honda Mechanic]

honda_brp_tech is right I wouldn't want to see owners wanting new bikes for everything that breaks ,and Honda has a VERY VERY good warranty ..We're still doing warranty on 2001's just have to get a warranty claim number from Honda.. But I said "if that were my bike" .. We get several bikes in a year that have filings in them ,it's from either a bearing breaking , piston skirt ,rod bearing or 1 of a 100 other reasons .. Getting the cases,gears,shafts,bearings are hard enough to clean but the oil gallerys running thru the cases and the oil coolers are next to impossible to get clean ..

This is a TRX500FE oil pump with approx. 200KM on it ..







This is a very small oil pump especially compared to a Rubicon oil pump which is 3 stage because of the high pressure required for the hydrostatic transmission..

 

[stang67]

QUOTE ("Honda Mechanic":3uv8sept)

I would talk to the Honda rep myself if it was my bike ..

I was told by the service guys that I was not allowed to talk to the district reps. I will ask again.

 

[stang67]

QUOTE ("honda_brp_tech":2javhayx)

I have a question. An atv has a lot of electrical and moving mechanical parts. Lets say one of those parts breaks or fails. It happens, not to every machine but it happens. Heres my question. If something does break, whether its something very rare (like an exploding oil pump) or something that Honda has seen before (oil seal leaking), why should a customer think they deserve a new machine or free extended warranty? Last time I checked, warranty covers these kind of problems at no cost to the customer. Thats what warranty is for. So why do some people think they deserve better treatment than others. Don't get me wrong, I can understand the fustration of your machine breaking down, especially with not many miles/hours on it, but thats why manufactures have warranties, to make the repair free of charge to the customer for a period of time. Imagine what would happen if a manufacture gave a new machine to everyone who had something break while under warranty. If you keep having problems w/ your machine, then I can see the reasoning behind asking for something from Honda. But for one break down, no matter how much damage your engine suffered, be happy your not two years out of warranty and paying the bill out of your own pocket.

I understand this point of view. I felt like I paid for a 6mo warranty and that is what I must deal with. I felt, and still feel, that if the machine needs a longer term warranty, I would be able to determine that within the first six months of riding. However, that is NOT the case here. 90% of my riding is during deer season -- which happens to take place the two months during which the bike was in the shop. I don't even demand full reimbursment for the warranty just some help. Basically, I just want an apology from them and a gesture saying, "This is not the type of machine we build and this is not what you can expect for the remainder of this atv's life."

In all honesty, this seems like it should be a policy for such severe problems taking place so early in a bike's life. I really don't think I am asking too much. 7 HOURS for crying out loud, before the engine seizes.

 

[stang67]

Honda_Mechanic -- In your opinion, if "all engine parts that contact supplied oil" are replaced, will the problem be repaired. Nothing was done to the tranny, which is supplied with engine oil also -- correct? I am a bit worried about that.

Is there any other way that an oil pump could fail other than the filings you mentioned earlier. I guess I am trying to assess whether or not the same thing could cause another failure. What are the chances of the new pump failing?

Thanks a ton, guys, for all your input.

 

[Honda Mechanic]

Here is a picture of the lubrication system of a TRX500FE/FM/TM as you can see oil is pumped thru places that can't be cleaned , like thru oil journals inside the crankshaft to lube the rod bearing..Inside the main shaft & counter shaft to lube each gear & bushing .. inside the head to lube the rocker arms & shafts .. And to get to these places oil runs thru gallerys (oil lines) that are inside the cases ..There are no oil lines on most Honda engines the oil lines are machined into the cases ,this engine uses 1 of the cylinder studs as an oil line but the rest of the lines can't be cleaned other than spraying contact cleaner or varasol in them and blowing out with compressed air ..

I have no idea what could have happened to your oil pump .. We've never had a Honda oil pump removed from a bike that was actually broken or in pieces like you said you saw this one .. If the oil pump was made to tight I would think it would be hot and dis-colored (probably blue color) before it siezed ..If it was dirt or filings that caused it to sieze it would be scored up with lots of scratches before it finally siezed and broke ..

 

[harry]

HM I like how you posted those instructions. I still got dial-up and usually it takes a month to load your instructions. But that is cool I can go close up if needed.