[450esMike]

Too cool! Looks like a new bike that will last a lifetime now. They are an awesome bike i swear by them. Nice pup too, we just lost a golden last valentine's day at age of 9 was a hard loss. Have a new one in training but don't think he will ever fill the loss, as good as he is too.

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

 

[MikeK]

thanks Mike! Yup that's Fletcher my 5 year old golden. Grew up with goldens but he's the first of my own, he's a great dog. My parents actually lost their golden this past June at the age of 9 to kidney failure. I agree there isn't too much harder than that loss. They have a new pup as well and I hear you about the hole still left behind.

Well on the Foreman I'm sorry to report what might be some bad news. I was riding around the yard yesterday, it's running and shifting great. However, when I came to a stop and put it in neutral I noticed it sounded noisy. There seems to be a pretty pronounced rattling/knocking coming from the front right of the engine case. I can only hear it when the rpm's are low down at idle speed. It is not perfectly rhythmic (i.e. it's not clunking once per revolution), but there's definitely a noticeable noise. If I'm honest with myself it sounds like the chain.

When I put the engine back together it was done with extreme care. Every fastener was torqued, Loc-Tite used where prescribed. All original timing chain tensioner and sliders went back in as they were in good shape. The chain was replaced "proactively" with an aftermarket unit. I believe sold under Moose, YBN chain from Japan which is why I felt OK with it.

I'm too concerned the noise is "real" to ignore it, so I think I have to take the front cover back off. Can I leave the front diff and prop-shaft in place for this?

Will have to see what I find, but I'm having a hard time imagining what could have gone wrong. It went together PERFECTLY. Right now my only thoughts are that I had a failure of my re-installed tensioner, or my aftermarket timing chain stretched out within 2 hours? I don't really think chains fail like that..

bummed!

 

[Fishfiles]

Nice job Mike , very clean --------- don't forget a little bit of break-in time , I have read where it takes 100 hours to properly break in , personally I am a 5 hour and then send it kind of guy

 

[MikeK]

Nice job Mike , very clean --------- don't forget a little bit of break-in time , I have read where it takes 100 hours to properly break in , personally I am a 5 hour and then send it kind of guy

Thanks, and fair point! I do have a tendency to treat things like my 2-stroke bikes haha. I think I put probably 3 or 4 hours of tootling around on it before I hit the snow with a little gas..

Did a lot of listening to the motor with a stethoscope and holding my chin and squinting... not sure that did much. It's certainly not a rod knock, it's definitely in the front of the engine and to me it has all of the hallmarks of chain noise. quiets down with rpm/load, rattles at low idle rpm. In this video towards the end I pick the revs up a bit then drop it and that's the best example of the noise.

interested to hear your thoughts on it. At this point I'm pretty set on pulling the front cover with a full Honda timing setup in hand.

 

[Fishfiles]

Thank goodness I have not heard that noise before , cause I got two 450s ------ I can relate to a timing chain noise , first thought was the clutches ---------- does it have a reduction in it

 

[toodeep]

Did it have that before the work was done? Video amplifies sound but that sounds like a decent knock.

 

[MikeK]

Thank goodness I have not heard that noise before , cause I got two 450s ------ I can relate to a timing chain noise , first thought was the clutches ---------- does it have a reduction in it

I don't think so. It did have the 27s and the lift but everything else looked stock. Almost positive I was the first to split the cases. Confused if you're thinking that is NOT a timing chain noise?

Did it have that before the work was done? Video amplifies sound but that sounds like a decent knock.

I rode it so little before I tore it down I'm hard pressed to say, but I have a decent ear and never picked up on it... so it either was not there/quieter or was drowned out by it being a clattering clunking mess in general previously.

So I'm not to proud to admit stupid mistakes.. I adjusted my oil level in my tent-shed which is NOT level, overfilled it pretty good the other day. I set the oil level properly yesterday and actually found that it is quieter now. Still making more noise than I expect, but the overfilled crankcase wasn't helping.

If I hadn't just done all the work I'd probably just run it and keep an eye on it.. but now it's like it's a matter of principle so I feel obligated to chase it a bit. Timing chain and tensioner should show up Monday and I have the day off work... thinking I'll get this back in the heated garage and at the very least go ahead and pull the front cover again for some visual inspection. It'd be so much simpler if I didn't have to pull the jug for the tensioner! I guess I'll see what I find, but figuring that I'll be in there with parts and will probably go ahead and "reset" the whole timing setup with new Honda parts.

If it still rattles on reassembly after that... well it's just gonna get ridden I think. I'm disapointed but not too wound up over it surprisingly, really I'm just glad it's not a rod knock, or a clattering bolt bouncing around or any other catastrophic kinda thing. As long as I can leave the **** motor in the thing I'm alright.

 

[toodeep]

These motors aren't a quiet sewing machine, they do make some noise. Possibly some clutch rattle so you might want to look at that when taking it apart. I have cut out the lower fin above the tensioner before just to replace it. It gives just enough room to get the job done and doesn't hurt a thing on the machine as far as cooling.

 

[MikeK]

These motors aren't a quiet sewing machine, they do make some noise. Possibly some clutch rattle so you might want to look at that when taking it apart. I have cut out the lower fin above the tensioner before just to replace it. It gives just enough room to get the job done and doesn't hurt a thing on the machine as far as cooling.

Thanks, TD. A bit of voice of experience is helpful. Regarding clutch noise, would it be worn friction plates, or springs? When you say give it a check while I'm in, should I be pulling plates and measuring thickness per book, or any other ways to check?

I thought I read two fins, if I can get the adjuster out just by knocking off that lowest fin I might do it. Not a thought I love but leaving the jug on really simplifies things.

edit: looks like it's gonna warm up a bit this weekend. I'll get it out for a ride in warmer weather, with appropriate oil levels, and see how she's doing/get a better vid for you guys to hear. Thanks again for the input though, it is definitely a help!

 

[MikeK]

job done (again). Getting the front cover off wasn't bad at all. I just removed the lower splash guards and inner front fenders, then used the winch a hook in the garage ceiling to pull it up and stand it on the back rack. That was a great tip I read on here, made everything so much easier than crouching down and trying to do it on the ground.

Didn't even have to take the Warn out which was really nice. I got the front cover off and everything looked fine. Nothing loose, the chain had not touched the case and was properly tensioned.. nothing that looked out of place. The tensioner is definitely fine. The only thing I could find that showed any wear was the timing chain guide (the arm piece that also acts as the bearing retainer for the clutch shaft). The wear block on that guide was a bit worn, I didn't realize that on the first go-round because I didn't have a new part to compare and it was worn so evenly that it looked new. Once I had a new piece to look at I could see it was worn down a bit, I measured .036" of wear on the block.

Don't think that was causing any problems, but I had the part so I installed a new guide. I also installed the new Honda timing chain for peace of mind. I left the good tensioner in it so I'll leave the cylinder removal or fin-cutting until that part actually needs to be replaced.

Really wasn't anything else to do. The clutches seem OK, so it went back together. It still makes some noise low at idle, but it quiets down as the oil comes up to temp. Video below is idling after a 5min ride. I feel better knowing that nothing is OFF under the front cover, I now know the timing chain parts are good, so I think I'll call this all set and ride with confidence.