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Discussion Starter #1
I could use a little advice from some of you that ha e even wrenching on the ol machines longer than me and familiar with the 300's. I've gotta 94 300fw and put a top end with a fresh bore, new piston kit, rings, head job with new seats and seals, new valves, springs, new rockers in the rocker box, sprocket, cam, DID chain, and gasket and seal set all Honda parts and G & H did the machine work and head. I also put a new Shindy kit in my carb after stripping the carb down and running it through my sonic cleaner. Installed new fuel line and in line filter as well.
Got her all back together and she won't hardly get out of her own way! I've checked timing probably 3 times at least and adjusted the valves, which was correct after the 1st time but had to start somewhere lol. I ruled timing out since it fires up as soon as you hit the button, I mean better than it ever has and then started thinking maybe the centrifugal clutch or something in the right side case may be a tad outta whack but she takes off through all the gears, shifts great, no weird clanking or other noises so ruled that out also.
So the only thing I can conclude it's the carburetor but still not positive. I talked to @jeepwm69 today and he seemed to be on board with what I was thinking after knowing all the details, as well as suggesting I post my issue here and see if @toodeep has any ideas or suggestions other than adjusting the pilot jet on the carburetor. I've played with it a little and it's gotten a little better but still just really weak and will barely go in the ditch and pull up the other side, which isn't very steep and should have done it with ease and would before this 2nd little go around of repairs.
It got to a point to where it went up better but still real sluggish and not pulling like it should, even just taking off through a flat field going through the gears.
Like I said, it's getting better but I still feel like I've missed something, something small and very stupid ???! I'm ready to listen to any and all suggestions anyone has so bring it on boys, let the games begin!!!! Oh, and by the way....I've been fooling with this flippin thing for several weeks and several of us are going Saturday to Kentucky to ride so I'm seriously running outta time! ??????????!!!! I have mixed emotions as to if it'll adjust and be ok or not but it almost has to because it starts so friggin well and idles perfectly and sounds amazing with no tricks, valve noise or anything so that's why I listened to Jeep and posted here and bounce it off ya'll. I greatly appreciate any suggestions or experiences had like this or questions for me, just whatever at this point, so what do ya'll think?
 

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I'm going to guess it just wont rev up to get the power needed. How did the rubber look on the throttle slide? DOD you blow all the ports out and make sure they was clean after the ultrasonic bath? Exhaust flowing good? Intake tube free from obstructions ( rag, old bee nest, etc)?

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes sir too deep, it won't get the rpm's at all, just bogging out and zero ass for lack of better terminology. The throttle cable is new within the year, Honda factory as well, she stays inside in the shop so no dirt dobbers or anything like that. It gets used I guarantee ya that lol and can promise nothing gonna build a home in, on or anywhere near it lol. Everything was blown out after the sonic bath and a spray of carb cleaner through everything followed by a shot of compressed air. Exhaust is good, actually sounds amazing idling and running, just no C.O. Jones man, weird. That's why I say it's gotta be something simple. What else ya got up that long time sleeve of yours? Jeep spoke highly of ya so I know I'm in good hands and appreciate your help and advice.
 

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Maybe remove the muffler and try it, it's old enough for something to break loose and clog the exhaust.


Is it getting full throttle? See if the carb actually opens up all the way. Is the slide stuck?
 

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I had a similar problem with mine. Stopped and talked with a few guys on the trail and they we were talking about our rides and I said I like the older ones because they are easier to work on without all the electronics, they thought I said better. Started it up and went up the hill fine, got to the top and bogged down so bad wouldn't even run on flat ground, idled great, started immediately every time I tried. Had to get them to tow me home, took the carburetor off and cleaned it and it runs great again. I'm not familiar with your carburetor but mine and my honda pressure washer carbs have a jet in the middle of where the bowl is that has a real small opening. You can remove it with a flat head but it's brass so be careful and get a good grip on it the first time or it will chip and break. By cleaning that, it fixes my pressure washer every year after sitting. Not sure where the obstruction was on the carb. on my atv but after cleaning it, I got full power again. Good luck.


One extra little thing, when I tried to rev it up in neutral, it still bogged down and almost died.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well, I just rebuilt the carb with a new Shindy kit and ran it through a couple cycles in my sonic cleaner before putting it back together initially. Then yesterday I took it off the wheeler and stripped it back down and in the sonic again with all the brand new jets and everything, blew it out, carb cleaner through everything, put it all back together and it had a few little pieces of trash when I took it off but after I got it back together it did ok after adjusting the pilot jet but just not quite there.
I know everything is clean as a whistle with an new inline filter, new fuel line and everything, so I'm missing something little and gonna feel dumb as dirt when it gets figured out! More so than I already do now LMAO! I've got great spark, new NGK plug, perfect fuel flow, the while 9 yards which just bumfuzzles the fire outta me!
 

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Your carb is a CV type, which means the slide is vacuum operated and a butterfly valve is your throttle opening.


Check to see if the butterfly opens all the way, and the slide is not stuck or it's diaphragm compromised in some way. Often, when the diaphragm/slide is removed, it doesn't get reinstalled correctly, causing it not to seal. The diaphragm has to be seated correctly between the top cover and the carb body.


With the diaphragm removed, you can flex it in front of bright light to check for cracks.


Edit: There's also the lift test. You lift the slide and then drop it. The slide should fall with some resistance and you should hear a woosh of air. If it drops like a rock, there's a problem with the diaphragm.
 

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Your carb is a CV type, which means the slide is vacuum operated and a butterfly valve is your throttle opening.


Check to see if the butterfly opens all the way, and the slide is not stuck or it's diaphragm compromised in some way. Often, when the diaphragm/slide is removed, it doesn't get reinstalled correctly, causing it not to seal. The diaphragm has to be seated correctly between the top cover and the carb body.


With the diaphragm removed, you can flex it in front of bright light to check for cracks.


Edit: There's also the lift test. You lift the slide and then drop it. The slide should fall with some resistance and you should hear a woosh of air. If it drops like a rock, there's a problem with the diaphragm.
True.....and the diaphragm has a little ear on it that has to be turned a certain way to fit in the groove made for it where the metal cover with four bolts is placed on top.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Everything in the carb is new from Shindy and the diaphragm from Honda and was checked before installing for pin holes, cracks or any other defects. It doesn't just fall in and I heard air when I tried it as suggested so that's good. There's a little tab in the carburetor where it sits and all of that is correct as well. This isn't my 1st time working on this ol gal by any means but the 1st time I've ever had an issue that I couldn't solve by process of elimination, reading the Honda manual or sleep on it and something else comes to mind to check. I'm not one that ever gives up but I'm about to burn it to the ground ? I know it's something simple, gotta be as I've went from top to bottom trouble shooting, manual, checking, re checking, manual, take it off again and check diaphragm 3 times, I mean dang! I'm just frustrated as all get out and refuse to be beaten but geeze! She's about to get the best of me as bad as I hate to admit it.
 

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That sends me back to the muffler. Or checking the ignition timing with a light to see if the CDi has gone batty. And see if the carb butterfly is opening fully with the throttle cable.
 

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What are the code numbers on the side of the carb , yours should be VE90A for the 93 ----------- When cleaning that carb are you using compressed air from a blow gun to blow out every hole? I don't know about the sonic cleaner , I soak mine in a gallon can of Chem-tool . Is that diaphragm new , when the diaphragm is leaking the bike will run and sound perfect till 1/2 throttle and then fall on its ass ? -----sometimes after cleaning a carb say 6 times and it still don't run right , I have gotten another carb and all was well ------ Are you sure you have the timing right and not be a stroke off , with the "T" in the timing hole the lobs of the cam should be down , the bolt hole for the sprocket on the cam straight up at 12 0'clock and the two lines on the sprocket level in line with the head ----did you take a compression test ? ----a slight bend in the connecting rod with male it run out of time with lower compression ------- what about the rubber boot and o'ring on the boot , between the carb and air box , you can check for leaks there easy by spraying starting fluid around the boot , if it is sucking air then it will rev up

I have a 92 300 , when I got it it had a 350 carb on it , I switch sevral carbs around and never could get that bike to scream , I got the correct code carb from Manny and rebuilt that one and it screams now

now if the engine revs and you are not pulling well ( I kind of get that from your post ) , if you took the clutch apart and pinched a plate when reinstalling it is a problem , if you take your finger or a screw driver and try to move the ears of the plates of the clutch and some of them will move , then one is pinched and I seen where sometime it won't move at al , but other times it will move but not perform worth a crap
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hey Fish! Man, I'll have to look and see what numbers are on it. The carb that was on it when I got it was a China Fleabay POS and got an actual factory carb off a 93 and mine is a 94, same carb, when I did the inital rebuild not quite 2 years ago. I've checked the diaphragm, taken all the jets out and blew through each and every one after the sonic cleaner. Also I found someone that had 2 intake boots that were NOS Honda parts when I did the inital build so the one on it and O ring is new and excellent seal there and tried the ether test. I wondered about the pressure plates but thought it either wouldn't pull at all or wouldn't shift if those were pinched or outta whack, so you're saying it could still pull and shift, just half assed and cause the symptoms I'm experiencing? I know my carb is right as rain, butterfly opens and closes, slide sliding as it should, new diaphragm and everything so I'm starting to think it's something else and that would make sense but went by the manual which led to me the carb as well as talking to Jeep and he said it sounds carb related also. I'll pull that right side cover and see what I can find in there and let ya know what i find. If one is pinched will it cause any weird wear or anything on them or the ones pinched? It hasn't ran much but have tried it across the field a few times to check after adjustments and stuff so hopefully haven't messed them up, they're pretty tough but just wanna ask and make sure I haven't torn something else up lol. Thanks for the suggestion and your expertise, much appreciated brother! Thanks!
 

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Oh, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt the timing is spot on. That's the 1st thing I thought about but it started before the starter made a sound, never started so good! But I checked it several times, pulling the plug and making sure it's on the exhaust stroke, everything is lined up with all the marks and everything. Valves are set spot on also, it actually sounds like a sewing machine, idles beautifully but just a big lack of power and have to really give it so much throttle to actually get it to go anywhere and it's never been like that. I guess the power, or lack thereof, would best be described as like the brakes on the rear are locked up and you're trying to give it throttle with that type response. Half throttle or more to even get it to get going and shift a gear or two, just crazy.
 

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Oh, and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt the timing is spot on. That's the 1st thing I thought about but it started before the starter made a sound, never started so good! But I checked it several times, pulling the plug and making sure it's on the exhaust stroke, everything is lined up with all the marks and everything. Valves are set spot on also, it actually sounds like a sewing machine, idles beautifully but just a big lack of power and have to really give it so much throttle to actually get it to go anywhere and it's never been like that. I guess the power, or lack thereof, would best be described as like the brakes on the rear are locked up and you're trying to give it throttle with that type response. Half throttle or more to even get it to get going and shift a gear or two, just crazy.

There's valve timing, with the cam chain, and ignition timing via the CDI. Though after thinking about it, I don't think timing would cut off power so abruptly.


I think it could be more of an air flow issue, the throttle or clogged exhaust.


You might also try it without the fuel filter to be sure it's not a fuel volume issue.
 

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Wonder if the CDI might be on its way out?


Might be time to order another carb and try it. Process of elimination, and everyone needs an extra carb on hand anyway, right? LOL
 

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Wonder if the CDI might be on its way out?


Might be time to order another carb and try it. Process of elimination, and everyone needs an extra carb on hand anyway, right? LOL



Probably only you and TooDeep fit into that category.
 

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Hey now, most of mine are efi now.. lol

On the op... have you tried messing around with the airbox lid removed, possibly filter and using your hand to change fuel mixtures on the intake side?

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Discussion Starter #18
Well, I told y'all that when I figured out what it was that it would be something simple and I'd feel dumb as a sack of hammers! Well, I DO!!! LMAO!!!! The friggin diaphragm wasn't seated well and out of the groove in one little bitty spot about an eighth of an inch or less was causing a vaccum leak and wasn't pulling it like it should when on throttle. I took it back off, got it all back like it should be, put the top back on and got her all hooked back up and BINGO!!!! WFO and running like a striped ape!!!
Now, here's what just absolutely sucks! I've got a cracked case half and now have to take the motor out, tear it down and put it all back in my new cases, put everything back on and install the motor ???!!! I'm just stunned but sooooo glad I caught it at home vs out on the trails hours from home, not to mention if it would have ran the oil out of it riding and locked it up and trashed it. So, after going through all that crap and y'all racking your brains helping me I gotta do all this mess! I'm so not looking forward to it but it must be done! I got a matching set from PSN off a 98 that were in excellent condition and dang near clean as new ones, and 49 bucks! So I'll use those since they're a matching pair then repair the cracked one and have a spare of matching ones, which is always a good thing to have for the when and if.
So, I more than appreciate everyone chiming in and helping out, y'all are awesome!!! I'm going to try and get started on tear down tomorrow and hope to have it out and on the build table and ready to open up and start the transfer. Should I just add pics and everything to this thread or start a new one for all that, what do y'all think? I'll definitely post plenty of pics and progress for everyone since we're all pic junkies LMAO!!! Thanks again guys and I'm sure even though I've done this before and have a manual that I'll end up with a few questions, never fails and let me know y'alls input about keeping it going here or new thread! ?
 

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Well, I told y'all that when I figured out what it was that it would be something simple and I'd feel dumb as a sack of hammers! Well, I DO!!! LMAO!!!! The friggin diaphragm wasn't seated well and out of the groove in one little bitty spot about an eighth of an inch or less was causing a vaccum leak and wasn't pulling it like it should when on throttle. I took it back off, got it all back like it should be, put the top back on and got her all hooked back up and BINGO!!!! WFO and running like a striped ape!!!
Now, here's what just absolutely sucks! I've got a cracked case half and now have to take the motor out, tear it down and put it all back in my new cases, put everything back on and install the motor ???!!! I'm just stunned but sooooo glad I caught it at home vs out on the trails hours from home, not to mention if it would have ran the oil out of it riding and locked it up and trashed it. So, after going through all that crap and y'all racking your brains helping me I gotta do all this mess! I'm so not looking forward to it but it must be done! I got a matching set from PSN off a 98 that were in excellent condition and dang near clean as new ones, and 49 bucks! So I'll use those since they're a matching pair then repair the cracked one and have a spare of matching ones, which is always a good thing to have for the when and if.
So, I more than appreciate everyone chiming in and helping out, y'all are awesome!!! I'm going to try and get started on tear down tomorrow and hope to have it out and on the build table and ready to open up and start the transfer. Should I just add pics and everything to this thread or start a new one for all that, what do y'all think? I'll definitely post plenty of pics and progress for everyone since we're all pic junkies LMAO!!! Thanks again guys and I'm sure even though I've done this before and have a manual that I'll end up with a few questions, never fails and let me know y'alls input about keeping it going here or new thread! ?
Awesome. Glad you got it figured out.


And I would like it if you started a new thread, and put in lots of pics as you go. I'm going to be tearing down a 300 motor (hopefully) in the near future (have to get brakes fixed on my kid's 300, and figure out the noise in the other kid's 350 first) and I'd like to see it as you go.


Since Shadetree rebuilt my kid's 300 motor I still have yet to get into the cases on that specific motor.
 
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