They dont suck,you must've got some crappy off brand ones with Honda stickers on them!!! .I love my 500,and I rode with a 450,and I was ahead of it a good bit,but no extreme mud,alot of ruts though,but we also rode through muddy ponds ,and we had great fun,but I wasnt comparing his honda to my honda,I was comparing a Yamaha to my Honda,and mine did better!!!ok been a while but still the 500's suck and i guess im just saying that cause im having problems with my dealer. both of my bikes were in the shop for 4 months or so and they didnt even touch them. The guy that owns thaty dealership needs to die in a car wreck or summin. we bought 5 of these pos's in a week and they wont fix them even though they have warranty. my bike has 500 miles on it and needs a topend rebuild. this is due to the oil pump being in the front of the bike anmd not in the back of the motor where it should be. I starved it of oil doing wheelies. i've got two 06 foremans for sale one with 1000 miles and the other with 500 miles just take opver payments and we'll be good.