Help, smoking from the muffler on my 98 450ES - Page 2 - Honda Foreman Forums : Rubicon, Rincon, Rancher and Recon Forum
 21Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
Honda Addict
 
bcsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Michigan Thumb
Posts: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majorpayne View Post
What oil are you using?

Shell Rotella T4 15W-40 which is good for the wet clutches.

1998 Honda Foreman 450ES`
bcsman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
Honda Addict
 
bcsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Michigan Thumb
Posts: 128
OK got tester yesterday and ran it today. I started the engine and ran to warm it up. I then removed the plug, screwed the adapter in, attached the hose and gauge. Also grounded the plug wire, opened the throttle and cranked. It registered 160 psi and stayed there after 5-6 times over. Manual says 78-121 psi normal but if below on the check to loosen the exhaust valve lock nut and adjust 1 1/2 turns and recheck. It should then read 178-206 psi. My check is between both the readings so not sure what that means. Any ideas here would be appreciated...

1998 Honda Foreman 450ES`
bcsman is offline  
post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 02:45 PM
Honda Lover
 
Majorpayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 389
I would run it. Does it still smoke after riding for a while?

Brad
Majorpayne is online now  
 
post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-04-2019, 06:33 PM
Honda Lover
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: WV
Posts: 345
I expected decent compression, since you said it starts and runs ok. But, extra oil in the cylinder will raise the compression number.



Not too many places the oil can come from. Past the rings, through the valve seals, and that's about all considering how well it runs. The head was just looked at, but maybe the valve seals weren't? Normally with bad seals, the smoke would be worse during high vacuum, as with decelerating.



I've seen Hondas run for months like that with worn rings, then the piston rocks sideways enough for the skirt to rub the cylinder wall, then it will seize. A 200x comes to mind. Or, the rider forgets to top off the oil and the bottom-end goes.
Moccasin Ranger is offline  
post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
Honda Addict
 
bcsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Michigan Thumb
Posts: 128
Went to talk to our local small engine shop today. Told him about having 160 psi and what the normal should be. Also said it has all of a sudden started smoking from the exhaust lately, mostly after warming up, never right after starting. Obviously he said it is getting oil from somewhere that shouldn't be there, said to check any hoses running to the engine, the only one I see comes from the bottom of the air cleaner box. Took that off and no oil on the end. Other than that said it would need the valves and piston/cylinder torn apart to check. So looks like I prolly am at that point. He said having the valves and assemblies new, gaskets, and boring the cylinder to fit my .040 piston I have would be around $500-600. I have no way of removing valves or boring so does this sound reasonable? Just don't know any other reason it's burning oil but having higher than normal compression....

1998 Honda Foreman 450ES`
bcsman is offline  
post #16 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 03:29 PM
Honda Red Wing Rider
 
mrbb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: ne PA
Posts: 3,356
my 2 cents, if your going to spend the time and $$ here, I would insist on a full case split and clean, clean clean, and inspect all things!

as if this motor was every sunk and all you do now is a top end and there is something in there that is eating things, you will be back at this point real soon,
done right once, and it will last for yrs and yrs
half azz things and you could be wasting more money down the road!
mrbb is offline  
post #17 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 06:14 PM
Honda Lover
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: WV
Posts: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcsman View Post
Went to talk to our local small engine shop today. Told him about having 160 psi and what the normal should be. Also said it has all of a sudden started smoking from the exhaust lately, mostly after warming up, never right after starting. Obviously he said it is getting oil from somewhere that shouldn't be there, said to check any hoses running to the engine, the only one I see comes from the bottom of the air cleaner box. Took that off and no oil on the end. Other than that said it would need the valves and piston/cylinder torn apart to check. So looks like I prolly am at that point. He said having the valves and assemblies new, gaskets, and boring the cylinder to fit my .040 piston I have would be around $500-600. I have no way of removing valves or boring so does this sound reasonable? Just don't know any other reason it's burning oil but having higher than normal compression....

That's probably about right, I don't use shops very much, but the last cylinder bore & hone I got was $90, and I carried the cylinder in. That's been quite a while too.


Is this a different shop than the one that lapped the valves and checked the timing chain?
bcsman likes this.
Moccasin Ranger is offline  
post #18 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
Honda Addict
 
bcsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Michigan Thumb
Posts: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moccasin Ranger View Post
That's probably about right, I don't use shops very much, but the last cylinder bore & hone I got was $90, and I carried the cylinder in. That's been quite a while too.


Is this a different shop than the one that lapped the valves and checked the timing chain?
Same shop, but I think I have changed my strategy. A good friend is a local auto mechanic and was talking to him about my problem, he hasn't worked on an ATV engine but done lots of car and truck engines. I have the extra engine given to me when I bought this and he said to bring the head for him to look at to get a better picture of what is involved. He said no problem, he has a valve compression tool to get things apart so I have decided with that I can replace all the valves, springs, and seal. I should be able to clean any carbon or whatever is on the head surfaces. While everything is apart I do plan on getting the cylinder bored to match the Wiseco piston kit that came with my spare parts. On their website it is listed as .040 oversized. Should save me a few hundred $$ I would think.

Where does everybody order engine parts from?? I don't want the cheap China parts with this project. Is there anything I should replace with this project besides the valve and piston parts and gaskets?? Now is the time while apart....Thanks for all the advise....

1998 Honda Foreman 450ES`

Last edited by bcsman; 06-06-2019 at 07:50 PM. Reason: add
bcsman is offline  
post #19 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-07-2019, 09:35 AM
Honda Lover
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: WV
Posts: 345
If I can find it on ebay, I order from there. If not, I check amazon.


Good deal on getting the friend involved, I wasn't too impressed with that shop. Remember? They said the valve timing was good, but that's exactly why it wouldn't run.
Moccasin Ranger is offline  
post #20 of 65 (permalink) Old 06-07-2019, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
Honda Addict
 
bcsman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Michigan Thumb
Posts: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moccasin Ranger View Post
If I can find it on ebay, I order from there. If not, I check amazon.


Good deal on getting the friend involved, I wasn't too impressed with that shop. Remember? They said the valve timing was good, but that's exactly why it wouldn't run.
Yea kinda agree with that assessment, I looked up pretty much all the parts I should need on Partzilla to redo the head including valves, guides, and gaskets. It came to about $150 so alot of labor costs to make it close to $500!! Whether they need it going to replace most everything and also see what the piston and cylinder look like. I have that oversized Wiseco piston kit that was in the spare parts I got and will probably use it and have the bore job done for the $100. That way its pretty much all new.....

1998 Honda Foreman 450ES`
bcsman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda Foreman Forums : Rubicon, Rincon, Rancher and Recon Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome