Recon ES Resurrection - Honda Foreman Forums : Rubicon, Rincon, Rancher and Recon Forum

HighTide610 · 01-04-2012, 05:24 PM

OK... new to the forum and "somewhat re-newed" to ATV ownership

I recently purchased a 2002 Recon ES of Craigslist, and initially had really felt like I stole it. Owner said it sat for a few months and just needed a carb rebuild and battery. It’s not the "prettiest" from a plastics perspective, but they are in one piece and not terribly damaged. Had good spark, decent compression, oil in crank case and differential were used and not milky so I had a pretty good feeling about the motor not being submerged and run. But, it has not been the most "properly" maintained bike. Main reason in buying it was to have a project bike to start with my 15 year old son, thought it would be a great little project for him to learn and us to spend some time doing together. I used to race 3 wheelers in the 80's, so I am pretty familiar with tearing these things apart and have got most all the tools and a shop to work on it, so all is good there. But after a carb rebuild and battery, I discovered it is a WHOLE lot more involved than initially thought. Ran for about 3 minutes and died, after pulling the plug out to check for spark (which I did and was good), I found it had about 10psi of compression, so I figured valve hung, spring broke or rings went south (a little puzzled how they could go that quick, but oh well). When I bought it I had relegated to spending some time in the motor and since its winter time in north Florida, no better time than now.

We pulled the motor last night to find valve train in decent shape; HOWEVER, lifting the cylinder off the case, a piece of the oil spacer ring fell into the case... yea yea... I know better, however, I had already figured if I was tearing into this thing to go all the way with it simply because then I would know what I had. I am still stumped how the rings could go south so quickly, but I have a strong suspicion that it’s been quite a while since this thing has ran. Either way, I had already ordered a complete gasket kit and clutch kit for it and was just waiting to see the condition of the rest of the parts before placing the next order.

So… here is the first question, the Honda Service manual and the Clymer I have both show a clutch holder for the centrifugal clutch, a Honda part number… along with a puller for the clutch. I’ll order them if I have to, but I am grinding my teeth together at the cost (apparently, they come gold plated with a Honda Certified Mechanic… OTHERWISE I am killing the parts guy at the store for ripping me off)… I thought about using a 3 jaw puller and a clamp, and then read today where guys are using that… so, one tool solved. I have looked at that clutch face for about an hour and think I can actually weld up a holding wrench with some scrap metal laying around and make it work, but was wondering if I am just overlooking the obvious? What does everyone else do?

Next question, there is quite a bit of residue in that centrifugal clutch cover, I get wear is normal; since I am in this far, do I replace that as well? Is it common for them to wear out? Friction discs and clutch plates are a forgone conclusion, and will be replaced but is this one of those parts that rarely goes “south”?

Next question, when I removed the front case cover, I immediately noticed the oil pump chain OFF the pump sprocket, much to my surprise I was able to lay it right back ON the sprocket… WTH is up with that… I have read in several forum articles that is a loose chain by nature? True or BS?

And then the last question… at least for the next 24-48 hours… the case… OMG, the previous owner/owners sure knew where to find mud and crap to bust thru with this quad, but APPARENTLY did not have access to soap and water or did not know what a water hose was… it is freaking NASTY. So my thought…. At the moment anyway, is since I am going to have this thing busted down to parade rest (aka, bearings out and ALL), to go ahead and throw it in the blast cabinet (being very careful around gasket mating surfaces of course) and blasting the whole case, because I am not sure outside of a wire brush and 10,000 hours, how to ever make this thing look presentable again. Any ideas or tricks (and soap and water ain't cuttin' this, I have already pressure washed it)??? Understand, I want to teach my son about the work it takes to make it right so the lesson ends up being KEEP IT CLEAN AND MAINTAINED!! So please go easy on me for the somewhat OCD nature I have in approaching this project

Eagle_On · 01-04-2012, 05:49 PM

welcome and i would use a 3 arm puller,, the chain are loose, and don't put the entire case in the parts washer with the case still together just hose it down and eagle mag cleaner will shine it up don't let bearings or gaskets get wet.

also since its an entire rebuild go ahead and get new uni air filter, spark plug, gasket kit, motor and diff oil, and maybe a fresh battery and any bearings now so you won't have to wait later

**toodeep** · 01-04-2012, 06:02 PM

The clutch holder is not needed if you have an impact wrench. A couple short bursts from the impact and the nut will unstake itself and come right off. I can't remember if those are right or left hand threads on the Recon, your manual should say if they are left hand thread.

That cover on the centrifugal clutch is an internal oil filter, your going to have residue from the clutches and everything else in there.

The oil pump chain would explain why it didn't run long. They stretch and fall off (more common on the Rubicon/Rincon). They do seem a little loose when they are new but you can't just sit them in place.

You could try some aluminum cleaner on the cases. Sometimes it works good and others the stuff is too baked on.

Welcome to the forum...

sspeckerwood · 01-04-2012, 06:17 PM

welcome to the forum. looks like toodeep has you took care of

HighTide610 · 01-04-2012, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle_On

welcome and i would use a 3 arm puller,, the chain are loose, and don't put the entire case in the parts washer with the case still together just hose it down and eagle mag cleaner will shine it up don't let bearings or gaskets get wet.

also since its an entire rebuild go ahead and get new uni air filter, spark plug, gasket kit, motor and diff oil, and maybe a fresh battery and any bearings now so you won't have to wait later

Thanks!! I was planning on taking the case(s) completely down, removing everything, the sludge in the bottom of the motor is CRAZY.

Maybe I undersold the atrociousness of the condition of the outside of this motor... I can try the mag cleaner, but this thing is REALLY bad.

Eagle_On · 01-04-2012, 08:00 PM

mag cleaner, purple power, or simple green and a pressure washer should do the trick

HighTide610 · 01-04-2012, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toodeep

The clutch holder is not needed if you have an impact wrench. A couple short bursts from the impact and the nut will unstake itself and come right off. I can't remember if those are right or left hand threads on the Recon, your manual should say if they are left hand thread.

That cover on the centrifugal clutch is an internal oil filter, your going to have residue from the clutches and everything else in there.

The oil pump chain would explain why it didn't run long. They stretch and fall off (more common on the Rubicon/Rincon). They do seem a little loose when they are new but you can't just sit them in place.

You could try some aluminum cleaner on the cases. Sometimes it works good and others the stuff is too baked on.

Welcome to the forum...

OK.. so on the locknut, I read another post where I think you said something along those lines, I do have an impact, but I am afraid the minute I hit the trigger on that impact I am gonna sling the crank around and damage the connecting rod. The top end is already apart.

That explains why it was soo caked in the cover, so is there a sensor on the pump? Kinda figured a new chain was in order, along with a timing chain. I posted a pic, I am thinking its beyond the aluminum cleaner, but I'll give it a try, it surely can't hurt, but at the end of the day I am thinking its just gonna have to be bead blasted.

HighTide610 · 01-04-2012, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle_On

mag cleaner, purple power, or simple green and a pressure washer should do the trick

Hey... I am willing to try about anything, blasting these cases was kinda a last resort for me anyway... I just want it cleaned up. I am teetering on just pulling the frame down as well and getting a buddy to hook me up that can powder coat it.

And I forgot to mention earlier, I already bought a new battery, filter and plug

and the battery so far was the biggest shocker... I thought I was buying batteries for my Dodge diesel.... JEESH those little things are EXPENSIVE!!

**toodeep** · 01-04-2012, 08:20 PM

Just hold the rod in your hand as you pull the trigger on the gun. You'll feel the impacts but it shouldn't jerk it out of your hands. You could also jamb the gears with a soft metal to keep it from turning.

I use alumabrite (sp?), a buddy has a gravel co. with a ton of trucks so they get it in 55 gal drums.

Eagle_On · 01-04-2012, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighTide610

Hey... I am willing to try about anything, blasting these cases was kinda a last resort for me anyway... I just want it cleaned up. I am teetering on just pulling the frame down as well and getting a buddy to hook me up that can powder coat it.

And I forgot to mention earlier, I already bought a new battery, filter and plug

and the battery so far was the biggest shocker... I thought I was buying batteries for my Dodge diesel.... JEESH those little things are EXPENSIVE!!

i would tear down the frame and powder coat. is your already got the motor out. powder a arms and rear axle also.

01-04-2012, 05:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
HighTide610 Honda Rider Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Orange Park, FL Posts: 30	Recon ES Resurrection OK... new to the forum and "somewhat re-newed" to ATV ownership I recently purchased a 2002 Recon ES of Craigslist, and initially had really felt like I stole it. Owner said it sat for a few months and just needed a carb rebuild and battery. It’s not the "prettiest" from a plastics perspective, but they are in one piece and not terribly damaged. Had good spark, decent compression, oil in crank case and differential were used and not milky so I had a pretty good feeling about the motor not being submerged and run. But, it has not been the most "properly" maintained bike. Main reason in buying it was to have a project bike to start with my 15 year old son, thought it would be a great little project for him to learn and us to spend some time doing together. I used to race 3 wheelers in the 80's, so I am pretty familiar with tearing these things apart and have got most all the tools and a shop to work on it, so all is good there. But after a carb rebuild and battery, I discovered it is a WHOLE lot more involved than initially thought. Ran for about 3 minutes and died, after pulling the plug out to check for spark (which I did and was good), I found it had about 10psi of compression, so I figured valve hung, spring broke or rings went south (a little puzzled how they could go that quick, but oh well). When I bought it I had relegated to spending some time in the motor and since its winter time in north Florida, no better time than now. We pulled the motor last night to find valve train in decent shape; HOWEVER, lifting the cylinder off the case, a piece of the oil spacer ring fell into the case... yea yea... I know better, however, I had already figured if I was tearing into this thing to go all the way with it simply because then I would know what I had. I am still stumped how the rings could go south so quickly, but I have a strong suspicion that it’s been quite a while since this thing has ran. Either way, I had already ordered a complete gasket kit and clutch kit for it and was just waiting to see the condition of the rest of the parts before placing the next order. So… here is the first question, the Honda Service manual and the Clymer I have both show a clutch holder for the centrifugal clutch, a Honda part number… along with a puller for the clutch. I’ll order them if I have to, but I am grinding my teeth together at the cost (apparently, they come gold plated with a Honda Certified Mechanic… OTHERWISE I am killing the parts guy at the store for ripping me off)… I thought about using a 3 jaw puller and a clamp, and then read today where guys are using that… so, one tool solved. I have looked at that clutch face for about an hour and think I can actually weld up a holding wrench with some scrap metal laying around and make it work, but was wondering if I am just overlooking the obvious? What does everyone else do? Next question, there is quite a bit of residue in that centrifugal clutch cover, I get wear is normal; since I am in this far, do I replace that as well? Is it common for them to wear out? Friction discs and clutch plates are a forgone conclusion, and will be replaced but is this one of those parts that rarely goes “south”? Next question, when I removed the front case cover, I immediately noticed the oil pump chain OFF the pump sprocket, much to my surprise I was able to lay it right back ON the sprocket… WTH is up with that… I have read in several forum articles that is a loose chain by nature? True or BS? And then the last question… at least for the next 24-48 hours… the case… OMG, the previous owner/owners sure knew where to find mud and crap to bust thru with this quad, but APPARENTLY did not have access to soap and water or did not know what a water hose was… it is freaking NASTY. So my thought…. At the moment anyway, is since I am going to have this thing busted down to parade rest (aka, bearings out and ALL), to go ahead and throw it in the blast cabinet (being very careful around gasket mating surfaces of course) and blasting the whole case, because I am not sure outside of a wire brush and 10,000 hours, how to ever make this thing look presentable again. Any ideas or tricks (and soap and water ain't cuttin' this, I have already pressure washed it)??? Understand, I want to teach my son about the work it takes to make it right so the lesson ends up being KEEP IT CLEAN AND MAINTAINED!! So please go easy on me for the somewhat OCD nature I have in approaching this project

01-04-2012, 05:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
Eagle_On Honda Red Wing Rider Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: SOUTH CAROLINA Posts: 803	welcome and i would use a 3 arm puller,, the chain are loose, and don't put the entire case in the parts washer with the case still together just hose it down and eagle mag cleaner will shine it up don't let bearings or gaskets get wet. also since its an entire rebuild go ahead and get new uni air filter, spark plug, gasket kit, motor and diff oil, and maybe a fresh battery and any bearings now so you won't have to wait later __________________ 04 rubicon -28 zillas

01-04-2012, 06:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
sspeckerwood Honda Red Wing Rider Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: tooele, ut Posts: 8,777	welcome to the forum. looks like toodeep has you took care of __________________ 2012 TRX500FM FOREMAN. SSPECKERWOOD 3RD HEADLIGHT MOD QUAD BOSS REAR SEAT 26" SWAMPLITES KFI #3000 WINCH HOT GRIPS HEATED GRIPS & THUMB WARMER HONDA ALUMINUM A-ARM GUARDS 00' FOREMAN 450es HIGH LIFTER SPRINGS FRONT & REAR MAXXIS TIRES OFF A 2012 FOREMAN 500 SSPECKERWOOD 3RD HEADLIGHT MOD http://www.flickr.com/photos/sspeckerwood/ http://www.youtube.com/user/sspeckerwood Official hondaforeman.com stickers IF YOU WOULD LIKE OFFICIAL HONDAFOREMAN.COM STICKERS PM ME.

01-04-2012, 08:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
Eagle_On Honda Red Wing Rider Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: SOUTH CAROLINA Posts: 803	mag cleaner, purple power, or simple green and a pressure washer should do the trick __________________ 04 rubicon -28 zillas

01-04-2012, 06:02 PM	#3 (permalink)
toodeep Administrator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: south dakota Posts: 6,653	The clutch holder is not needed if you have an impact wrench. A couple short bursts from the impact and the nut will unstake itself and come right off. I can't remember if those are right or left hand threads on the Recon, your manual should say if they are left hand thread. That cover on the centrifugal clutch is an internal oil filter, your going to have residue from the clutches and everything else in there. The oil pump chain would explain why it didn't run long. They stretch and fall off (more common on the Rubicon/Rincon). They do seem a little loose when they are new but you can't just sit them in place. You could try some aluminum cleaner on the cases. Sometimes it works good and others the stuff is too baked on. Welcome to the forum...

01-04-2012, 08:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
toodeep Administrator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: south dakota Posts: 6,653	Just hold the rod in your hand as you pull the trigger on the gun. You'll feel the impacts but it shouldn't jerk it out of your hands. You could also jamb the gears with a soft metal to keep it from turning. I use alumabrite (sp?), a buddy has a gravel co. with a ton of trucks so they get it in 55 gal drums.

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