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Rubicon vs. Outlander....yet again

61K views 62 replies 19 participants last post by  Agar426 
#1 · (Edited)
I have read nearly every thread on the Rubicon vs Outlander. However, at the risk of angering the forum gods and repeating an often asked question, I will ask.

Most of the threads out there talk about top speed, ride, reliability and "will it run 29" mud tires," and this isn't necessarily what I'm after....necessarily. My current ride is an '03 Honda Rubicon, in great shape and trouble free. I will keep this bike and my son will ride it.

Here are my riding needs/preferences:

1) Must start every time. I understand that batteries go bad, and what not. Barring poor maintenance, it must inherently start every time. No problematic fuel injection setups, etc.

2) Must get me back to the truck, again barring operator error.

3) I don't care about top speed. I usually hit my comfort zone around 35 mph, so anything above that is just advertising as far as I'm concerned.

4) While top speed isn't important, good usable power is.

5) Riding Type - I'm not a mudder. I live in the high desert of the southwest, so I have everything from flat desert riding to mountainous trails, as well as rocky trails. I don't seek out the tallest steepest hill to climb, but if I encounter a big hill on a trail, I need for the bike to be able to handle it. Most of the riding will be trail riding, but...I also need the bike to be able to haul my butt out of the woods with an elk strapped to it. This won't be the norm, but when I need this level of utility, it needs to perform without worry of the machine failing on me. I also may ask it to take me and my son out on a 2 day overnight camping trip.

6) I will not be installing taller than stock tires, so I don't care which one runs 28" mudzilla's (or whatever) better. But, when new tires are required, I want to have the confidence to know that I can install a set of radial tires, for example, knowing they may be heavier, and the machine will still handle it.


I spent all day yesterday at both Honda and Can-Am dealerships. While they were different stores, they were owned by the same company and they don't work on commmision, so there was no real incentive for them to push themselves on me, and their behavior proved that. They were all very straightforward in answering my questions, and very indulgent of my rants. I told the Honda guy that "cuz it's Honda" may have worked a few years ago, it wasn't going to be good enough. I will be honest, I never thought I would even consider something other than a Honda, but....as the years have gone by, I hate to admit that the other brands, while always ahead in innovation, they are also catching up in quality. There's the rub...."catching up." Have they caught up? While admittedly unfair, sins of the past make it hard for me to look at brands such as Polaris. At the same time, past reputation is what keeps me in the Honda camp. I'm not sure I should follow so blindly. As consumers, competition is great for us. That is what has me so frustrated with Honda. I have no problem with them doing their own thing, such as not using a CVT. No problem at all with that. But, do they always have to take so long to upgrade their products? When I heard the Rubicon was being updated, I thought to myself "finally...the machine I've been waiting for is here." Then when it came out, I looked at it, and other than the IRS, it seems to me that it's not a new machine at all. It seems to me that they just said to themselves "we don't want to have two 500 class engines, so let's dump one. After that, they just pulled old parts off the shelf and bolted them into a slightly different configuration and slapped a Rubicon sticker on it. I don't see anything other than an IRS equipped Foreman, with optional DCT. Not that there's anything wrong with that, and after spending two hours crawling all over it yesterday, I was tempted to buy on the spot. What I'm trying to get at is that Honda had an opportunity to get on the green in two on a short par 5 with a giant green and wide fairway, but chose to lay up instead, taking the safe road. Meanwhile, over at the Can-Am dealership they had no problem rattling off, with confidence, all of the high points of the Outlander, while the Honda salesman was less confident in the facts. Not trying to say the Honda guy was being more of a "salesman," it seemed more like he knew I had done my research, and he knew the "cuz it's a Honda" approach wasn't going to work, so he went after the facts, but didn't seem to have the confidence in the that the Can-Am guy did. I guess you could say the Honda guy felt like he needed to convince me, but the Can-Am guy felt the machine spoke for itself.

Honestly, I think both machines would fill my needs just fine, and their price points are in the same neighborhood. But, they are expensive enough, that I want to get some opinions from both camps. If I chose Can-Am, I would wait for the 2016, as they have bumped it to a 570, and they're claiming better bottom end. With the Rubicon, I would probably do the same, wait for a 2016, unless I found a 2015 at great discount.
 
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#2 ·
Can am will always have more power. The rubicon with 25 or 26 inch tires like i have will rob a little power but will on any bike. Just research what tires are best. The zillas are likely one of the best for a honda because they are lighter. I have executioners and they are heavy but man i have some traction. Ive had my new rubicon deluxe in every riding condition (snow, mountains, mud, woods rds, tight twisty trails, etc) since i bought it 2 months ago and if your not looking for speed, it will run all day with no problems. Can ams are high maintenence but do have the most power in all classes. If there was a 680 rubicon avaliable itd be the best bike out there but they dont so i settled for the 500 and it will do me just fine. As far as reliability, u will never beat a honda unless u wade through water all the time with it. The can am u will pay an extra 2-3000 dollars for the 500 outlander over the 500 rubicon and to me the only difference is the cvt and more power. I perfer the foot shift and as far as power... well ill do a few upgrades to compensate for the heavy tires and i will still be 1500 under the can am 500 and be within 6-10hp of it. Cant beat a honda!
 
#61 ·
Within 6-10 HP, seriously? The Rubi puts out out what, 30-32 HP, the Can Am 500 puts out 50 HP.

As far as Maintenance, Honda should be recommending more items as I have had to replace a lot of worn bushings because they didn't provide a means to keep them lubricated. Yes it was still drivable with worn bushings but I'm kinda anal about excessive slop in the steering.

I have a bit over 16,000 Kms on my Rubi and a bit over 6,000 on my canam 650 Max. If Honda had had a 2 up ATV when i was shopping for one, I probably would have stayed Honda. Do I regret buying the CanAm, in a word, NOPE.

As far as the extra maintenance, mostly it's just greasing the suspension joints ever other ride, 10 minutes. Oil changes are ever 3000 kms as opposed to 1000 kms on the rubi, 2 liter of oil versus 5 and a bit.

Every ATV design will have their compromises, Pick what suites your riding style and whose compromises you can live with and don't look back cuz you'll always wonder if the other choose may have been the better one.
 
#3 ·
Do you want something exciting, or something boring?

I don't know what the prices are where your at but up here a DCT deluxe Rubicon is within $550 of a 650 DPS Can-am, which is a LOT more machine.

Don't leave out the 2016 Grizzly either, should be a very nice machine.
 
#4 ·
How come you didn't get a can am for $550 then your rubi? I seen you said how much better the can ams are then Hondas so I'm wondering why you bought a honda and but big mud tires on it?
 
#5 ·
The Outlander XT is the model I'm interested in, so it's price is close enough to the Rubicon that I consider it a wash. Now, if I was looking at the Outlander L, it is quite a bit less expensive than the Rubicon, and still has the power, handling, EPS. It's a little too stripped for what I want, but....with the price and warranty, it is definitely on the list.
 
#6 ·
OK I will MAYBE add something many miss
HP< YUP we all talk the talk
BUT if your in the high country, HP matters ,as the air thins, a motor makes less HP, so starting with more is a better plus to have on your side
ALL ATV"S long life is a LOT with how you take care of it, more than the name on it

If you don't run alot in the above say 7,000 ft range, then most decent HP atv's will hold there own, as you get up past that you notice more loss of HP

Honda's have been known to be super reliable atv's they have IMO< more machine geared metal parts than, some CVT type belted atv's
so, in the aging game, that win that war, as even a well cared for belt is effected by age and heat cycles
BUT most CTV systems today, allow for several thousand miles out of belt and many yrs before age alone effects them
SO< on this note, MY 2 cents is GO and ride the models you like, and BUY the one that feels best to you
take care of it and it will last and get you home, and keep it on a battery tender, IF your in the back country for a long time, get a solar powered battery tender too,as all these dam electronic's are battery killers IMO
BE very happy to see someone come out with a pure basic machine, a carb,(EFI is a better option for a lot of elevation changes however), Cat has battery less EFI on there sleds, so??) and basic, key switch and head lights, NO other crap needed, WELL a 12 outlet for a compressor for tire plugs comes in handy LOL
then again I like old school things , "KISS"< deal!
 
#7 ·
I've been up and beyond 10,000 ft elevation numerous times, I haven't noticed any power loss what so ever...
 
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#9 ·
here is a little info LOL

the formula for HP loss at elevation is

HP Loss = (elevation x 0.03 x horsepower @ sea level)/1000

SO< lets say, a 150-horsepower motor at 1,000 ft, . , then what its HP will be at say 6,000 ft
The Horsepower Loss is going to be equal to 6000 times .03 times 150 divided by 1000 or a loss of 27 horsepower. That’s roughly an 18 % loss of power
SO??
as you can see going higher you motor cannot make the same HP as it could down lower, ? just math and science , not just me LOL
 
#15 ·
I completely understand the way it works. However, there isn't a noticeable difference in power when up at that higher elevation. Now take my 2012 Foreman, or even the older 500's and 450's, and you can feel a huge difference riding at elevation. The fuel injection really helps to make it so the effects of elevation not seem so big..
 
#13 ·
Not at all! I'd love to be able to ride my quad around for work! Lol
 
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#16 ·
^^^^I'd take his word for it. I don't ride in varying elevations at all, don't think you do either mrbb? The effect of altitude calculated by a formula is fine, but it's a relative figure and not specific to any particular engine or machine, I can only assume different machines respond differently to altitude changes.
 
#17 ·
Well I have spent time at higher elevations, , been in the Rocky's snowmobiling many times and would start out at about 7,000, and go up over 10,000, and felt the power loss many times.
Now if all your doing is riding easy trails, and such, you may not notice it, but the hpHP loss is there, and since we all know a Honda isn't a huge hpHP to start with, if your working it, you may just want to have more hpHP, to start with?
that was all I was saying. EFI only benefit it has is it will compinsatcompensate for elevation changes, where a carbm needs to be re jetted to run best at each elevation.
yes it helps keep motors running right, but doesn't make up forHP loss.
NOW, letslet's say from 1,000 ft to 8/000 ft change, its like a 20% HP, lossas, so, on a Honda, that is say 30 HP., that's being down about 6 HP?, can you get by on that, I gather yes, as 300's only have about that Much HP? So?
I doubt a ton of folks ride a lot up high anyways, BUT the OP said he rides in high desert, so? I just threw this info out for him LOL
 
#18 ·
ask any athlete about the effects of altitude on their bodies. theres less oxygen for the bike to burn at 10000ft than there is at 1000ft. this means they ALL require less fuel. if ANY brand engine is tuned for it, EFI for example, it will still run fine but will definitely be less powerful. I spent a few years living at close to 9000ft and it is what it is. theres just 30% +- of the weight of the atmosphere below you where it isnt usable to your fuel delivery system.

engines nowadays dont really notice this so much as the efi on our cars and atvs etc make it a seamless transition. I think the other factor is when you get in higher altitude situations, you are awestruck and slow down and are a little more careful as you tend to be in more remote places should things go wrong. i suspect this is likely why most wont notice the effect of altitude on power output.
 
#19 ·
temagamiarearider your right about the air being thinner, I only have oine lung and at elevation I can feel it big time, then add in doing any thing that you exert any energy and its a big difference up high

here is a pic of my Dodge there at 9300 ft, near Round Lake Mt, out side of Cooke City MT
used to seld up there many times in the past and Maybe thats why I know and have felt the power loss, as many time High marking your on long power runs up hill, and not just trail riding to notice a loss in power
its again also why Turbo's are big in the Mt;s on sleds, as they can force more air ion to make up for the thin air and still make good HP
and then a pic I think at about 8,000 ft in WY, North west of Pindale WY.
and the dog, that went on many trips with me, even he got winded faster up high LOL
 

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#20 ·
i drove sspeckerwoods dads stock 2000 foreman 450es at about 8500-9000 feet that thing was a slow pig ....but the new rubi does 100% then that 450 over 6000ft
 
#21 ·
OK.....as the OP, I feel I should chime back in! I didn't get the email notices, so I'm a little delinquent. Anyhow, I live at 7,300 feet or so. My hunting trips are anywhere from 5,000 feet to over 9,000 feet. So, elevation will be a factor. I'm aware of the horsepower loss, my biggest concern is proper jetting, which the EFI would take care of.

Back to the machines themselves....although the 2015 Rubicon is new to the market, are there any issues that have cropped up? I hear a LOT about how the DCT shifts poorly or is in the wrong gear. I hear it from both, people who have experienced it, as well as people who simply "heard" about it. That, combined with the fact that it's human nature to be quick to complain, but slow to praise....it's tough to arrive at a conclusion as to whether or not the the Rubicon would be problematic. Over on the Can-Am forums, there are threads with known issues, and comments on how Can-Am has addressed them. I'm really liking the features of the Can-Am, and the fact that it makes more power. I will ride both before I lay down any money, which will tell me a lot. Decisions.....
 
#23 ·
Both machines should suit your needs just fine, the can am will just get you there alot faster and the extra power is beneficial for staying afloat of mud and snow.

I have a 07 outty 650 max XT and a 13 renegade 800r (both bought new) and I have nothing but good things to say- both from a reliability and performance standpoint. Other than changing the gearbox oil every year or so and filling the grease points throught the suspension, maintnence is nearly identical to that of a Honda. Just change the oil and filter once a year, dif oil as needed and gas it up. The nice thing about the 500/570 is that it shares its driveline with the larger/more powerful machines so you shouldn't expect some of the same differential and cv issues that guys with 1000s running 30in tires experience from time to time.

At your elevation I would think that the extra 18HP that the outty offers over the rubicon would really benefit you. The rubicon has the gearing to tackle high elevations without breaking much of a sweat but to put things into perspective, the can am will still be making quite a bit more power at 10k feet than the ruby will at sea level.

The one negative I will say about the Can Ams is that they have a tendency to drain a battery quicker while sitting than any ATV I've had so a battery tender is a good investment.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Good info!

Ok....now let's talk about the handling. I've heard the Outlander rides and handles great. What about the predictability of the handling? Is it twitchy or unstable? Is it like a rock? If the situation called for it and it was necessary, could I put my 13 year old son or my wife on it with some degree of comfort knowing the machine won't treat them like a wild horse? My '03 Rubicon is very stable and predictable, as most SRAs usually are. What about the new Rubicon? How is its handling?
 
#26 ·
My Rubicon is exceptionally comfortable to ride. The seat is soft and I find the ergonomics to be spot on. I can't comment on the DCT as mines a foot shift but my wifes 14' rancher has it. I'm not a big fan of how it shifts when riding aggressive but that's what the esp is for anyway. My wife has no problems with it and only uses the esp when in mud or hills. My seat time on can am's is limited to a weekend on a 12' Outty 800 and a few hours on a 13' Gade 1000xxc. Power is a big thing and Can Am delivers it. Honda not so much.
 
#27 ·
Hi guys I am brand new to the forum and saw this post and decided to add a comment as i am in the market for an atv as well. I have owned honda vehicles my whole life as well as epuipment so in that sense i am a honda guy. My son has a 2012 brute force 750 in my garage and i have driven it and many times on the trails and roads. Very powerful for sure but don't need that much bike. Plus i will be using it for work around the house ie: hauling firewood, plowing drivewary etc as well as playing. My neighbours have 2015 polaris 570 and 2015 Can am outlander 500 L both recently purchased. I have driven both. Didnt like the way Polaris drove as it felt like i was riding a tin can in an earthquke, plus i hate the stupid ten foot long shifter on it. I have driven with him on the trails and it seems to work well as does the bruteforce. I tried the can am but just on the road rides nice on the raod and has lots of snot as does my sons bruteforce. I would like to see how it performs on the trails hopefully soon. I was in local honda dealer in ontario canada and dealer also sells Can am. Upon looking at 2015 Rubi Deluxe I fell in love with it. comparing it side by side to the outlander 500 L at dealer everything on the honda looks like its built better and beefier from the frame shocks a arms everything period. the polaris and can am components just look cheap IMO. So my question is has anyone with the new 2015 rubi deluxe drivien with a polaris 570 or Can am 500 and how does it compare and will it perfom and keep up with those bikes. I know how reliable the honda will be and I know it will not beat them in a drag which i don't care about. Im talking about performnce on the trail, mud, climbing etc. The Rubi up here comes at quite a bit extra cost then the polaris and Can am. Like rubi deluxe is 10,499 with 2500 lb winch taxes and registration dealer will give it to me 11,900 out the door. That being said both the polaris and can am come in at around 9000 out the door. Would love to be the first honda guy on the street, but dont wanna be the guy that the others on the the trails say told ya the honda wouldn't keep up. Any way those of you who are rubi deluxe owners enlighten me to make my decision.
 
#29 ·
I think the honda will keep up just fine, on all but maybe top speed, and who rides at top speed on trails on these large 4x4 atv's
roads maybe?? BUT trails?
BUT that's the point of this tread, the other brands will do all the honda will do and at a lower price?, or that's what I think this tread kinda is about
the bag for the buck isn't on a honda as it is on other atv's
and to be honest IF you do your part, other brands are lasting very long, HONDA MIGHT have a slight edge on long life, BUT its not like the others are falling apart, bat the crap out of any and don't do PM's and they will all fail faster
do PM,'s and take care of what you have , and odds are it will all last pretty darn long!
your bigger question I think is, do you want to pay 3 grand ore to have a honda?
 
#30 ·
Thats my delema 3000 is a lot of cash. It would be nice to drive one on the trails to compare it to the other bikes cause i think that could possibly sway my decision but don't have that luxury, but just looking at the bike it just screams better built components compared to getting close look at neighbours bikes. My son brute force looks good and beefy as well solid bike for sure.
 
#32 ·
that's also the problem of the world wide web, a million opinions out there too(even mine LOL)
BUT like I said, if the other company's were making such JUNK< they would have gone under long ago, every brand has its loyal followers
and most that do have there reasons.
I Like Honda, great made products for sure, But I like foot shifts, so that leaves me with pretty only one option>
Yamaha makes a great atv as well, and I think IF I wasn't buying a Honda, I'd be looking there way to be honest, but again, that's MY opinion.
I personally suggest go, to a few shops that carry all the brands and sit on and test drive, as never know what FITS you better till you try, just buying off an opinion on a forum, would be silly IMO
best thing about forums IMO< is you can learn of common prone issue's and repairs to them, and there are always some great folks on many, that will help you solve an issue's
BUT every one is different, and has different likes and needs of there ATV"S
what's best for one, doesn't mean best for you!
FOR plowing, to me, a geared trans is the best way to go, and so is the solid axle! for towing
less smooth (trail riding,(not bad in any ways just not as smooth as a IRA) but a better platform for work
so if work is at the top of the need an atv for, Honda wins this battle
 
#33 ·
Thats the other reason why im leaning twoards honda is the geared tranny. I haven't expierenced any belt issues on my sons brute yet but was riding with the neibour with his 2015 fifteen polaris 570 and we were traveling through flooded road probably 2 feet deep he had the bike only 2 weeks and while we were going through the water his belt slipped. We still finished our trip but he had to take it back to dealer for repair as of course its under warranty and he wanted to make sure all was good.
 
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